Dialogue with BAV (uncut videos)
(UPDATED: All videos are available now)
Here the COMPLETE set of 5-part videos recorded from the Dialogue with Bishop Albert Vun on 15 October 2012, at All Saints Cathedral. All the videos are UNCUT. Follow these viewing instructions:
1. Click PLAY
2. When the movie started playing, click PAUSE.
3. Wait for the movie to load completely before you click PLAY again.
4. It may take up to 60 mins to load & stream the video. Or you can download them for offline viewing.
Uncut PART 1 (approx. 40 mins),
click PLAY to stream immediately or right click to DOWNLOAD to your computer
Uncut PART 2 (approx. 40 mins)
click PLAY to stream immediately or right click to DOWNLOAD to your computer
Uncut PART 3 (approx. 50 mins),
click PLAY to stream immediately or right click to DOWNLOAD to your computer
Uncut PART 4 (approx. 30 mins),
click PLAY to stream immediately or right click to DOWNLOAD to your computer
Uncut PART 5 (approx. 30 mins),
click PLAY to stream immediately or right click to DOWNLOAD to your computer
The Truth 
Thanks for your effort to link them and kudos to video recording team at ASC.
Now awaiting report from Sandakan meeting last night.
Based on part 1 video, the signatories control are very weak. Only two people can sign the cheques etc. Especially if large amounts are involved.
Currently I am doing one big tender of six digit figures purchasing for my organization. My tender committee is formed with 6 members to evaluate, write up and discuss tender specs. For Singapore government tender rules, at least 3 higher management people must agree and sign to award tender to qualified vendor. All tenders are open bidding, not closed bidding and award to Ps Lo…… you what I mean. I can only say from process point of view. For accounts, will be those pros to answer.
Also Paul Chong must be inside the meeting to answer accounts 2006-2012.
“We as church (body of Christ) are generally 20 years behind time in terms of being relevant”, someone commented. I think that depends on what the prevailing management system is. In the West, people commonly talk about consensus and laissez faire management styles, while autocratic or authoritarian management style is also not unpopular. Here in Asia and as far as the Middle East and Africa, there are really 2 types of common management styles, viz. “Do-what-you-are-told” management vs. the professional management, which is mostly associated with a discipline of accountability, transparency and team-play.
By and large, most of the urban Anglican Churches in Sabah are essentially used to a root management style which is influenced by Confucianism, where respect for elders is paramount. Similalrly, the Anglican Churches in the interior are generally familiar, or comfortable, with a management style that is largely maternistic (or paternistic). Both Confucianism or maternistic/paternistic management styles appear to share a basic requirement: respect for elders, where questions are not normally asked.
As much as “being considerate and gracious” is not obviously a local vocabulary, accountability, transparency and avoid conflict of interest also appear to be foreign, say to confucianist-based management style. There are many sub-cultures too in the Anglican Church today, for instance, there are the Anglophiles who enjoy a cup of tea like the Queen, there are those who like burgers and chips and most things American while there are also a large portion who like everything “Made in China” or “Buy Malaysian”. Those who champion professional-style management are likely to see that people of the confucianist-style management as stubborn and wrong. Vice-versa, those who in the confucianist-style upbringing (at home and at school) will see people of the professional-style as disrespectful, disobedient and lack-teaching (kurang-ajar). There is no end to the clashes of the 2 major styles of management. What is needed now is a spirit for resolution. Most of us agree that the professional-style management as far as governance is concerned is desirable and a good way ahead, besides being a necessity, but we cannot demand it to happen just overnight. We need to build it up, we need to win people over it, we need to allow time for change. For that matter, how many of our clergy and leaders are of the professional category? And for that too, how many of us? Not many really. If that is the case, we need to cultivate it and we need to allow time for it to happen. I think some of our professional skills may be constructively contributed to aid change.
Reading through this blog, restructuring of human resource and procedures is what appears to be proposed or even demanded upon. Some of the approaches suggested in this blog may or may not work and also appears not to have thought through the implications during and post-restructuring. As in Companies, the drive has to come from the CEO, unless the Board of Directors is terminating/replacing him or her. Without an otherwise-mandate from higher up entity, the CEO is the one any “unhappy”, “disgruntled” or “complaining” group (Group) has to work with for a change. Whether the Group likes it or not, they will have to exercise their professional and persuasive skills and wisdom/prudence to get the CEO to make change. Alternatively, what people like as an easy way is for the Group to effect their own CEO to sit in the CEO’s office to make the change, but of course thing does not happen this way in reality. What is real per the outcome of the House of Bishop (HoB) is this:
1. For change/restructuring, we all need to work with the Bishop of Sabah (BOS) at the present phase with whatever skills we have (until we have further mandate from the HoB), or
2. We insist the (BOS) be removed and replaced, and wait (this may turn out to be a cope-out)
In a gist, we have the choice to effect change: (a) Reform a person to change the system, or (b) Replace a person to effect the system-change. Both have no guarantee, unless the check-and-balance are up-to-date and in place and human resource are continously trained (including to handle below) in a professional and “shepherding” way.
Lastly, there are already fundamental changes in the Anglican Church in Sabah, which clergy, laity and members need to face up. Unlike 10 years or more ago, the Anglican Church in Sabah today has significant demographic and socio-economic change, besides education and access to knowledge and information (e.g. via the internet), and the headaches and challenges that come with it. In the past, a town church was caring for a congregation of around hundreds, today it is about thousand or thousands. Sum of money to be handled or utilised were in the tens of thousand, today we talk about hundreds of thousand or even millions. Pastoral care and social/spiritual challenges were contained, today it is mulit-faceted. Can we say we are all up-to-date, or are we all in the same boat 20 years behind time, with a further set-back?
(The above contribution is aimed at thinking through the issues now and later objectively. Admit it is not exhaustive)
Thanks to Resolution Seeker for long article on the influence of Confucianism on management styles and submission to authority. As believers, we have to judge all things based on the Bible even for philosophical ideas like Confucianism.
Your reply reminded me of the late Watchman Nee who is a well known preacher and pastor in China in early 1900s.
He wrote a book called Spiritual Authority. I read some of his translated books before in my early adult years, not easy reading though.
David Henke wrote and critique his book because he found errors which mirrors the spiritual authority ADOS is exercising now: http://www.watchman.org/cults/onemasterchrist.htm. This article also can be relate to one brother sharing on bible submission and Blogmaster’s sharing on Spiritual Abuse reflections.
Let me put a few pointers from this article:
1. Spiritual leaders struggle with the same sinful nature as those who follow. The efforts of leaders to see their church move forward can run into frustrating obstacles which can lead to the temptation to manipulate. A viable accountability structure is a guard to the congregation and to the pastor.
2. This false teaching came into American churches through Watchman Nee and his book Spiritual Authority. Nee says on page 71, “If God dares to entrust His authority to man, then we can dare to obey. Whether the one in authority is right or wrong does not concern us. The obedient one needs only to obey. The Lord will not hold us responsible for any mistaken obedience, rather He will hold the delegated authority responsible for his erroneous act.” In addition, he states, “We should not be occupied with right or wrong, good or evil; rather should we know who is the authority above us” (page 23).
3. To bring this concept into Christianity antagonizes one of the most fundamental principles of New Testament Christianity, the Priesthood of all believers. When the veil of the Temple was torn in half God was signifying that we all now have equal access to Him. There is no person who has spiritual authority (power) over us. We are all siblings in Christ and there is no chain of command among siblings.
4. The Church is a voluntary association of free people who accept the authority of God but recognize the equality of every believer. Because God is no respecter of persons, and because we are brothers and sisters in Christ, and because we can come equally before the Throne of Grace, the only valid authority and leadership we can follow is one of servant leadership.
5. Christians, all Christians, have the common duty to confront and correct false teaching. False spiritual authority usually rests upon a foundation of false teaching, the power posturing described above. The following scriptures command us to this duty – Romans 16:17-18; cf. 1 Timothy 1:3-4; 4:16; 2 Timothy 1:13-14; Titus 1:9; 2:1. It is not a rebellious spirit, gossip, anger, or spreading division to pursue truth and correction. However, in everything our motive must be the same as our Lord, our reconciliation with God and man.
Looks like the “amateurs” can turn around the videos way faster than the “official” & professional team.
Can you make copies into disc to be sold to parishioners ?
The video is in Vimeo format. To download it, paste the URL address (http://vimeo.com/51621491) into the box of the Vimeo downloader at this link : http://downloadvimeo.com. Follow through the instructions to save in into your computer in mp4 format. Discs can be burned from from your computer.
Depending on how efficient your internet line is, it takes around 20 minutes to load each video.
Enjoy.
我一直为这事件感到痛心和沉重，看了以上的对话，我深深感恩和感动。 弟兄姐妹在危机时如何起来维护教会， 他们对上帝的家尽职，是好管家。 我向你们致敬，并在祷告中继续纪念你们 。
Do you notice BAV was constantly playing with his phone? Does it look like he cares about the proceeding? Does he ever look repentant and sorry?
I guess he using the calculator app in his phone? Kira-kira how many monies he has to pay back or verify James/Rosalind’s quote of numbers. You need to look at Philip Lo and Albert facial expression after they both caught off-guard when questioned about the RM85000 Thailand visa without SC approval at the end of second video. Really “dramatic” when the camera zoomed on him, LOL
I am just waiting for the Sandakan video to be released.
Our brothers and sisters there are not well tuned to AV’s twisting and turning with half-truths and lies with him knowing full well they do not have facts and figures at their finger tips. The good thing is the whole session in Sandakan has been documented on video thereby making subsequent checking of facts possible to reveal how deceitful this man can be.
One of the challenges was about the Bangkok condo. As expected, he twists his facts to suit him making allegations baseless and uneducated.
Prior to releasing of the video, I can only sight a simple example of how he lies.
He said the Rangsit Outreach Center is not 60km from the Bangkok condominium but only 20km. Now, we have to be careful here. There are two condominiums in Bangkok with one bought a at a premium price and another previously bought by St. Patrick’s in Tawau.
If one calculates the distance from fringe of Bangkok City centre to the Rangsit urban centre, the distance is around 50km. If one adds in the distance from the city fringe to the Bangkok Gardens condo at one end and the distance from Rangsit urban centre to the Outreach Center at the other end, the distance will exceed 60km. So the allegation is true.
Now, where did AV get the 20km from ? Well, he did not pick it out from thin air. In his usual deceitful way, he gave everyone at the Sandakan meeting the distance between Bangkok’s Don Mueng Airport to Rangsit Urban centre which is around 24km. Unless the St. Patrick’s apartment is close to the airport, he is telling half-truths. If both are in the Bangkok City centre, he is blatantly lying.
For those who have travelled to Bangkok knows how bad the traffic congestion is from the fringe of the city centre. Remember, distance is one thing and time of travel is another.
(This is a preempt of the lies AV will say to hoodwink the listeners. Wait for the Sandakan video to come out and we will attempt to surface more lies from this man).
My mum spoke to me tonight on Sandakan meeting: This is just a rough memory from her.
All questions must be answered by Bishop alone as demanded by congregration, not SC. Stephen Foo chaired the meeting, not Moses Chin.
1. Why Fixed Deposit interest missing in the report?
2. Some other accounts questionable raised.
3. Thailand condos, AV said it is apartments, not condos he bought, then why buy 2 units to house missionaries to Thailand?
4. Land donated to church for Margaret Chong ministry usage, sold to a person to build a Buddhist temple. AV said he don’t know abt this transaction.
5. Rev Dais leave MC case. One person mentioned Ps Sonia might be threatened to not tell the truth abt her husband.
6. Rev Chai Lip Vui – why he got transferred to Singapore from Cambodia? He devote much effort, but he resigned? and went to China.
7. The accident case involved a little girl years ago, why he didn’t he visit her after the accident? He claimed he gave her money but no visitation done. AV was rebuked for lack of love.
8. Question about his trips to overseas, people demand detailed reports from him. They pay 1/3 of expenses to go. He select his own entourage.
9. Renovation on Bishop Lodge. He said RM600k used, the guy told him too expensive, at most RM300k for a big house. He asked for a detailed breakdown of cost from him.
Do you notice that AV did not personally reply on Thailand visa case and the mention of the 5 “traitors” in Telupid. He made use of others to answer. I suspect this is probably a legal advice by his lawyer to avoid admitting it as evidence for any court case. In a court case he can still deny it and if really wicked, can blame others.
AV is playing smart and at all cause try to remain silent to save himself. So those around him please beware as you may be made the sacrificial lamb or scrap goat!
Agreed with Pitbull. You can see how Mr Paul Chong, the ex- Treasurer being made use of by BAV. Isn’t Paul Chong a professional accountant? How come the books are all in a mess??? Over to you, Mr Paul Chong. How are you going to save yourself now? BAV is putting all the blame on YOU!!! Are you really that in-capable??? Say something please!
Oh yes Mr Paul Chong, ‘save the sinking ship’ !!!
why a testimony of Sonia wife of late Rev Dais appeared here?
Why no testimony from Paul Chong here?
what is the hidden agenda of AVCF here?
please can you do the video in youtube, I am having a very very big difficulty to watch/download it in vimeo.thanks
So am I,very frustrating,stops and starts and in the end,I switched off.
Dear S.Wong @ 38,
I do agreed to some of the truthful but very blunt comments from MKlee.
You ladies seems to be having an impaired vision & blockage of the convoluted nervous tissue,
I am very certain you ladies spent so much time at the Sister Act Corner sipping your Teas all day
long would have read the posting done in the TheTruth blog on the 40 charges of which your very beloved & very
indispensable Bishop Albert Vun Cheong Fui was found guilty on 38 of the charges out of 40.
Are you telling all God fearing Anglicans that you ladies at the Sister Act Corner are condoning to all these abuses ?
In Sandakan, your Bishop was asked the following questions & what were the answers,
1/.Land donated to a church in Kundasang to Pastor Margaret Chong for ministry works was sold to build a temple.
( BAV SOP answer, I am no aware ??? ).
2/.BAV on his visit to Sandakan with Fake Rev. Philip Lo knocked down a little girl and was hospitalised a few days.
Did our heartless BAV & Fake Rev., visited the little girl. Was giving $$$$$ to the little girl solved anything ?
My questions to BAV & the ladies sipping Tea at Sister Act Corner.
Are you not aware of the followings :-
3/.In the Synod Financial Report, last year BAV gave the Diocesan staffs an increment of more then 100% & more
then RM 100,000.00 increased in expenditure for salary just for the Diocesan staffs. How many staff do we have
at the Diocese office & how much did BAV gave himself ? WHo approved this salary increments ?
4/.BAV has been & is still been provided a fully maintained car by the Diocese, why did BAV also claim a monthly fuel allowance
of RM 350.00 from ASC ?
5/.Did BAV not tell a lie to all the parishioners at last monday dialogue at ASC that he was not the Bishop when a Rev. Dais die,
because Rev. Dais was only given a 3 days sick leave to recuperate from a heart by pass by BAV ?
We all knew BAV was installed the Bishop of Sabah in year 2006 & Rev. Dais passing was in year 2007.
6/.Why did BAV kept it secret all these years for spending RM 800,000.00 + RM 85,000.00 on a Condo & Thais Visa from the
parishioners , Synod & Stand. Comm ? How did BAV move the funds from ADOS’s bank accounts for the two transactions ?
Who signed these cheques for payments ?
7/.Why did all the Bishops, Albert,John Yeo & Melter took love gifts of minimum RM 2,500.00 to RM 10,000.00 for visiting our
sisters churches in Sabah. Was it not their Godly duties as Bishops & Assistant Bishops of SABAH to so so ?
Over to you Tea sipping sisters and do let others have they say, this is open democracy & we are not living in a Police State.
No body can denied your rights to read the blog but if you cannot agree to disagree, please keep your opinion to yourself &
all your Tea sipping ladies buddies of yours @ Sister Act Corner.
Amen.
Point 5 – Are you sure Rev. Dias did the by pass in 2007 right on the year passed away? Or was it a couple of years back? Find out the real truth before you comment.
To S wong and mlk
It saddens my heart to see brothers and sisters in Christ going after one another. There are reasons why someone wrote the way they write about BAV. This depends how well and how much true information’s you know about BAV and his real character. It also differ a lady from a man. It also differ how hurt you are. Though the objectives may be the same but the hurt in a person may differ, which will eventually control the way you put it into words. As is it we have been divided by BAV into two camps. His intention is to divide us into as many camps as he can, so that we will be busy arguing among ourselves and leave him to plunder and destroy ADOS. My humble advice is let put all our differences behind. Let us unite and stay focus in our common objectives that is to save ADOS from destruction and from being a laughing stock of the world. I personally will wait for the day when all the priests, pastors and staffs will take up the courage to come forward to testify how they were humiliated, scolded and ridiculed and how BAV treat all those who have left. I still say united we stand divided we fall. Let us pray to God the father who will give us the peace and joy to know the truth and help us to tolerate and understand each other better. Let us continue to pray for those brave brothers and sisters who spoke on Monday night dialogue that God will continue to bless and protect them and their family and give them the ability to discern his will for them to deal with every problems and obstacles they will be facing against BAV and his cronies. Amen
Thanks CPLF. Well written! My heart and mind have not changed nor have it been divided. I am still fence-sitting, and awaiting crossing, which is close but not quite yet. Words of encouragement and genuine revelation of the truth helps but antagonistic and syndical words would push miles away from it.
Thank you and as I’ve said in my above commend that which would be my last reply…. so please be rested assure that there would be no going-at-each-other anymore.
Thank you and God Bless.
To lift everyone us, perhaps we can share a joke or two. Here is my input.
Pinocchio, Snow White and Superman are out for a stroll in town one day.
As they walk, they come across a sign: “Beauty contest for the most
beautiful woman in the world.”
“I am entering” said Snow White.
After half an hour she comes out and they ask her, “Well, how’d ya do?
” First Place ,” said Snow White..
They continue walking and they see a sign: “Contest for the strongest man
in the world.”
“I’m entering,” says Superman.
After half an hour he returns and they ask him, “How did you make out?”
” First Place ,” answers Superman. “Did you ever doubt?”
They continue walking when they see a sign: “Contest! Who is the greatest
liar in the world?”
Pinocchio says “this is mine”
Half an hour later, he returns with tears in his eyes.
“What happened?” they asked.
“Who is this Albert Vun fella?” he asked.
LKH,
Thanks! I really like this one. I hope after a big laugh over it, contributors here sober up a bit,stop the name calling, ec. and get on with the real actual business at hand.
The blogmaster appears to be gracious and full of patience!
We should in the interest,NOT OF THE BLOG, BUT for the GOOD NAME of our LORD, refrain from
using spiteful, name calling, ad hominem terms against each other. Are these fruitful? Are these encouraging?
Are these blessings?
1 Peter 3:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
James 3
9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Be Objective. The Objective here is to uncover the Truth, and not destroy one another while you are doing that.
Shalom
On the lighter side…….
Three bishops from different denominations discussing how to decide what to pay themselves.
One suggested to draw a circle around himself and throw the weekly collection up in the air. What falls inside the circle should be the amount he will get paid.
The second one suggested to draw a line and he stands in the middle. Throw the money in the air and what falls on the left side is how much he gets paid.
The third tells the other two that their methods are too troublesome. He tells them just throw the money in the air and what God does not take should be his.
I want to write this again.
I know everyone of us is very frustrated and disappointed. I am not lesser than many of us.
Please focus on the primary issue, i.e. av’s disqualification as a bishop. Do not let the secondary issues to disunite us and eventually we will lose our focus.
Let us (including myself) from now on respect each other. Refrain from using nick names. The devil may use this to work against us.
I bet av can go very far because he has lawyers around him to teach him what to say. However, when he is confronted with questions unexpectedly, he is lost. The only thing he can do is to give excuses or continue to lie to us.
So, therefore, brothers and sisters, I plead with you all. Be calm and let us think strategically what to do next.
Amen to that.
Mr Blogmaster. Please do exercise judicious judgment before uploading the comments of the people.Some people get carried away and start calling names and if you post those comments, it only demeans this blog and make outsiders question the motives of the bloggers.Please don’t let us degenerate into mud-slingers or else we’d be easy prey for the devil himself. Blessings.
It is a fine line that the Blogmaster tows … (S)he has previously done this, only for some of us to then tell him off for being censorious and behaving like the controllers of the diocesan Facebook, etc. It is better that we ourselves
i) “keep a tight rein on [our own] tongue” (James 1:26),
but when we do see foolish comments …
ii) “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself” (Prov26:4)
By now, I believed most members of the ADOS would have seen the videos on the forum held in KK. What I would like to highlight is with respect to one particular segment where AVCF gave a list of reasons why he has not appointed a Dean for ASC. One of the prominent reasons is that the person to be appointed must be a priest for at least 7 years. I am just wondering whether abiding by this reason or ruling is a ‘ MUST ‘. I believed if there is a potential priest, is it not the duty and responsibility of AVCF to groom and supervise him to perform the functions, duty and responsibility of a Dean of ASC? The only reason that he is not appointing one, is because he wants to have full control of ASC which is the main parish of the DOS. If AVCF has all the reasons for not doing it, it brings me to another wonder; why he did not give all the reasons to ordain Philip Lo; despite all the objections.
One of the glaring and most important reason is that Philip Lo did not have a degree in Theology, a basic requirement for ordination to priesthood. AVCF just simply bulldozed things according to his whims and fancy.
AVCF, please bear in mind – ‘ No One Is Indespenable ‘. What would happen to the ADOS if you forget to wake up yesterday? You mean to tell DOS that there will be no Bishop for ever?
Another reason is that he is a selfish person, whether he is having double pay, for Bishop and Dean! since he decide his own salary just as for his wife who is not suppose to work just as other Priest/Pastor spouse, a terms and condition set by AVCF.
Some thoughts after watching part 2 (towards ending) of the video on the blog:
1. They claimed that it’s for ease of sending local Anglican members who have reached retirement age to support the ministry there, and to help to retain those new Christians under the Anglican’s umbrella. But isn’t it the case that it’s been done as there’s already a pastor named Faustina Foo leading the Rangsit Ministry in Bangkok? http://www.anglicansabah.org/2010.1/links.htm
2. Moreover, the long-stay visa is NOT a work visa, meaning the visa holder is NOT ALLOWED to work in Thailand.
http://www.thaiembassy.com/visa/thaivisa.php
3. Applying for such visa is highly unlikely to take such a long time to process, i.e. 12 months? And why would they need to wait till November to repatriate the RM85,000? I haven’t got a clue! I find it laughable when they said the immigration needed to see the monies sat there for 3 months prior to processing, and they hadn’t returned to Bangkok since. I thought they’re running a test case, and they just subsequently leave it just like that? Gone the urgency? 这不是太荒谬了吗！！
Well, I hope they can actually produce the term deposit slip eventually when asked. And the church has the right to know which bank exactly they have the deposit placed with (if there’s really one!), and at what interest rates for the period of placement. RM85,000 went out a year ago, when it’s returned a year later, the church would need to ensure that not just the principal sum of RM85k is returned, but also the INTEREST earned for the one year period. Imagine at an interest rate of 5% (the actual could be higher?), that would amount to RM4,250. Otherwise, I afraid all members would want to have an INTEREST-FREE loan from the church!
It’s just absolutely unacceptable for one to arbitrarily take money out of church’s coffer and place it in his or her personal account, even the person is the Bishop, under any circumstances!
4. We all know that Malaysian can enter Thailand without a visa for a period of 30 days. I would think it would be so much easier taking this ‘exempt tourist-visa’ route for one to visit and support the ministry there, even on a very regular basis. If one require to stay beyond the 30-day period for some reasons, one can always do an inexpensive visa-run by land travel across border to Cambodia or Laos, instead of flying back to KK to save cost. Hence, I can’t understand the so-called action taken by them in justifying their purpose. In other words, i can’t make sense out of it. Furthermore, as said earlier, a separate proper work visa would be required to work legally in Thailand, anyway. And a long-stay (retirement) visa just won’t do the job.
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-%22O-A%22-(Long-Stay).html
http://www.thailandexpat.net/the-visa-situation.html
One last query:-
THB800,000 (roughly RM80,000) deposit with a bank is required. What happened to the THB50,000, that is RM5,000? Please don’t tell me that’s all gone for visa application fee, which is impossible! A very lucrative biz indeed.
You have asked very good questions.That night,somebody should have asked which bank PLo had deposited the money into and where is the bank book to show there is Thai money equivalent to RM85000! Just saying that without proof is not enough.Since the money is in AV’s personal bank book,he should be the one to answer but he kept looking at PLo to give the answer! This is stealing,don’t they know that? I cannot help thinking how much could have been taken away so easily and yet AV said it was not possible for one man to withdraw a lot of money without the treasurer and the chancellor involved and now PLo admitted only he and AV knew of this.SC did not know!!! Another big LIE of AV’s! Isn’t this good enough proof to take actions against them and why was AV still allowed to carry on his road show,still spreading lies,money taken away even if PLo did it but put into AV’s personal’s account is the same as doing it together so why Plo took the blame alone?.AV is just as guilty!! Yes, the money sitting there earns interest but PLo said it would be returned but he did not say with interest! So can we also borrow money from the church to put it into our our accounts to sit there for one year and then return the money but the interests belong to us? If they were allowed,then anybody can because those money belong to the members,they have every right to borrow their own money.
Excuse me, can anybody enlighten me on who is the guy at the far left at the table and what is his role here? Is he a crony of BAV ?
Ann,
He is Chung Tau Yong from Tawau. He changed cap and became a moderator In Tawau dialogue. See Tawau dialogue for yourself to decide if he is a crony of BAV or not. 🙂
To Lee Beng Hock who spoke during the dialogue.
Everybody knows that it is God who gives and its God who takes. We all know and we all pray for God’s will to be done in our church. We all are praying like you said ! It is exactly what is needed that we need to search our heart. For what ? To see if there is any wickedness in us so that we can turn from our wicked ways and turn to God, starting from the top leadership.
We know the spiritual battle belongs to the Lord and God use people like us as His instruments to fulfill His plan. God use the Body of Christ for evangelism, ministries and as well as bringing down strongholds. Please, are you condoning to wrong deeds evidently happened in ADOS and ASC ? Are you not called by God to stand up for righteousness, to breakdown the strongholds of the evil one ? Didn’t you hear of the feelings of the people that night and wrongdeeds committed?
If you do not want to sign the petition nobody can force you. Its your free will. But there are others who stands for righteousness and sign the petition. For me AV has lost all credibility ! No offence to you.
To Lee Beng Hock,
I guess if BAV continues as bishop he owes you and your family a free overseas ‘ mission ‘ trip for your loyalty. Are you afraid that you wont have rice to eat if you dont support him? Your wife works at the All Saints Anglican Acedemy, your daughters work at D’Stream and the Music Acedemy.And you are brother-in-law to MT. See, its all ties up
Please someone provide a transcript of these video for the purpose of the Court and other evidence usage..
To Blog Master
Please check the download for Part 2 video. It looks like the video downloaded is part 3 video. Thks
LIM: The links are correct. I’ve triple checked.
Now with internet access,we can find everything there is to know without having to go to Thailand to find out! These people tell lies as if we are little children to take what they say as gospel truth.Thanks to fuwa63 for doing such good research.The excuses PLo gave were all lame excuses.
Hi Bishop,
I know I shouldn’t be saying this. Because I am only 24. You probably would say I am just a young adult and I wouldn’t have eat salt more than you did. I totally agree with you on that, but let me give all these young adults serving in ASC or young adults in the church a benefit of doubt. If there is no wind, there is no waves. So how would these stir up (waves) if there wasn’t any truths (wind) behind it? If these are gossips and false allegations, it wouldn’t have prolonged until today, how long has this been going on?
I’ve just watched the 4 videos only and I truly don’t understand where it is going if alot of questions were left unanswered. Paul Chong wasn’t around to clarify account matters and Michael Tong is saying I don’t know because that was years before and he wasn’t in-charged.
(PART 1 &3) Why were the people crowding the church during the dialogue? Because they wanted to know the truth. To be brutally honest, at some point, I truly believe that we wouldn’t know the ENTIRE truth even until we die but we would somehow AT LEAST get a little truth out of these. For example, we know that our government is lying about the figures in the accounts and budgets distributed to us every year. We wanted the truth out of this account (we totally have the right to know) but we as citizens (include opposition parties) are unable to do that because it is basically difficult. By doing so, some have to shed their blood to get the truth out of the accounts. But who’s going to do that? All of us have families we need to take care and we can’t do it due to the OBVIOUS circumstances that our government can do something and get away with it (example : Altantuya case & Teoh Beng Hock).
This is a church. We work differently from the political point of view. We are Christians, we eat the same bread. When we demanded a year ago for transparency and raised questions, each and everyone of us have the right to do so even if it is taking your time to reply one by one to us because we have problems with you, the leader, the shepherd. You don’t leave us hanging and doubting, why bishop do this or that. I remember Bishop saying in one of his letters that he do not need to come down to our level to answer our questions. What do you mean by our level? Are you saying that we are lower class? You do need to reply to us because for every actions taken, you were involved in it, either in finance, human resources or any other affairs. Because in the formal hierarcy, you shouldn’t be involved in everything – that makes you a busy man and you didn’t have time to focus on specific needs of us, therefore you say that you didn’t have time to answer to each of us. Chanselor, Standing Committees and PCC members have been overright at some point of the process, that is why you are accountable to answer us. Not them.
## The part saying there isn’t anyone could take the seat as a dean really doesn’t make sense. You said that the experience priests/pastors/rev have to outreach in other places.There isn’t one you can retain in KK? Now let me throw this ball back to you. How would you ask a young pastor that is not married and not very experience to conduct a wedding? He didn’t know and do not know what to share in the sermon because he is not married. In other words, how would you ask the people attending the church to believe what he preached/convinced since he hasn’t experience marriage? I believe the pastor himself would have a difficult time to prepare a sermon. We are talking about experience. So Bishop said no one is of experience to be a dean in KK? Then why wouldn’t Bishop says, the young pastor is not experience and he shouldn’t be asked to conduct a wedding.
I wouldn’t say you should do this, you should do that. Remember that you have a family and because of your actions, you have made your wife and your children in a vulnerable situation. Karma is totally a true thing, what goes around comes around. Likewise, treat others as of how you want others to treat you. Having said that, your actions would need to pay a price.
(PART 2) It is said that Mary is and still is the Principal. Let’s get this straight to the point. Everyone knew that it was a conflict of interest. Bishop had invited a few people to become a principal before the academy started and those invited had declined. If you have knew it from the first place, then why it wasn’t open to the floor of the church internally to apply and conduct interviews? I am sure someone would have come forward to submit application. Even if there’s no one is qualified then it must be opened to the public. The reason is simple, there’s no way you can go ahead when there is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. In any other organisations, at such, projects wouldn’t be proceeded and it will get stuck if the conflict of interest is not fix.
And that woman saying Barking dog. wow! aren’t you judging us saying that the members are barking dogs? You are in the House of God, how come you are saying Barking Dog and pointing at the people? Isn’t it God is a judge and is alive in the church? God has eyes.
Adding here, I wanted to ask, who funded your daugther in the UK? I am very interested in this. My parents have worked so hard and I can say that they wouldn’t have been able to support me and my siblings overseas with their salaries and savings. I was lucky that I am able too (bro and sis sacrified for me, I owed them the opportunity) because half of it I got a loan, the other half was my savings and the rest were from my siblings and parents. It was a difficult decision based on our financial status, that we took 2 years to make this decision to send me overseas which I have to stop studying for 2 years first. If you are able to fund your daughter there, I am sure you are getting a very high pay. I don’t need to do the maths here. But i’ve been doing it for 2 years to see how i can manage it off.
P/S: I am really dreading to go to church every Sunday. But my mum has been more of forcing me to go and she doesn’t understand why I didn’t want too. This wasn’t the case before, I really love going to church, seeing friends, worshipping and feeding my soul. Things change and people change. I don’t see any genuine friendship that is able to build with the other young adults. I have been in FCC and those leaders were from FCC. When you are in FCC, a member, you are useful to them. They text me and ask me to join them for service,cell group, fellowship and outings. So when I were no longer in KL, I left, what is there for me? People forget me totally, even my cell group leader! Not even staying in touch or asking how is each other from time to time. There isn’t any friendship exist. It is only exist when you are there and you are useful for the ministry. After you are gone, people don’t care what is up to you anymore. Don’t believe it. Then try it.
Matthew 12:36
But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.